Dialogue On The Way Of Knowledge - Part Vll

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I've added, what I'm calling, Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge, to my site, Carlos Castaneda's don Juan's Teachings. It began Mon, Jun 28th, 1999, when I received an E-mail from Michael. I will use "M:" to begin his comments, R: to begin mine. This is part seven of the dialogue. It continues where part Vl left off.
     
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R: I have to admit, when I read your, "You are encouraged to contemplate all of the above further. Perhaps it would be of assistance for you to disentangle each component of the thoughts then expand each thought as extensions, then see if after they are extended if they still match in the manner you have concluded to this point," my immediate reaction was a brief thought of, "That's the last thing I want to do." And I see where that thought came from. It was my reaction to not understanding and therefore putting myself to sleep.
     
M: It's wondered if there is more to the reaction than what is reported. Generally, an impulse reaction is more based in other long-held reflexes. Perhaps, you might consider, there is an impulse reflex to the suggestion of doing something. Even though it was not a 'command', a true 'command' could have provoked almost exactly the same sort of reflex response. These sort of reflexes describe a pattern that is suggested to be recapitulated.
     
R: Gosh, here I find myself as little Bobby, ... okay I have to start by disentangling what you just said (that I copied above).
     
M: You are making the case in point of the prior exchange. Specifically, your "requirement" for how you receive and respond to information and suggestion is very different than others and this is based on the observation that your own version of reality is different than others. That is not necessarily a problem, but it highlights profoundly the prior E-mail(s) statements that the teacher must execute some adaptation to the student, or the potential viability of a student will never be probed on anything but a superficial basis.
     
R: I guess I don't even know how to disentangle components of a thought or even what it would then be to expand that thought as extensions. ... as extensions of what? Of the disentangled components you must mean.
     
M: Yes. As extensions of themselves.
     
R: Let me see, what was one of the thoughts and what then could it's components be. I'll take what seems to be the main one I had. "I'm looking at one case as being a flow from the spirit and one case as being a flow from imprinted experience." Honestly, you've got me on that one. I don't see components.
     
M: Well, for a beginning, there are two components in overview of the above statement: a) ... looking at being a flow from the spirit; and, b) being a flow from imprinted experience.
     
M: Here is a sample process to consider for example purposes ... In smaller view, there are subcomponents ... "I'm looking at one case as ...
     
M: subcomponent --- a case ... is this really a case ... a situation ... an example ... and if any of these can it be cased in a package ... or is it not a case but a concept that requires probing and conceptualization.. and if this is a concept where does it extend toward in manifestation ...
     
M: subcomponent ---- being a flow from the spirit ....what IS spirit ... I talk about it and use the term but what is it? ... Is the spirit from within me or external to me, and how does the spirit express itself? ... and does it come to me or do I beckon it ... If it comes to me, it must be either aware of me, but is it sentient with consciousness, or is it just an energy field that connects to me ... by extension it would have no reason to connect to me unless it can gain something so that must mean that I could contribute something so by extension since "freedom means" non-subservience, then it cannot conscript my energy ... and there is no true altruism in the universe ... so by extension, yes, I can see that I must contribute something ... but I have to know that in advance ... and if I know that in advance then by extension it must mean that I can reach some level of proficiency so that I indeed beckon it or it wouldn't know what I had to offer ... so it must couple to me so then, by extension what happens ...
     
M: subcomponent --- and one case as being a flow from imprinted experience." but what experiences ... and how could these enhance or interfere with the way of knowledge ... does imprinted experience have to be negative or could it be positive, or both, and how can I alter the negatives so that they don't drain energy from me ... and expand the positives to bring better understanding ... and experience itself, is it a cased-package, or many-many separate events that are entangled within me that I can endeavor to separate so that I can extrapolate each one to learn how they interact within me and either contribute in the positive or detract in the negative..
     
R: But you did say, "perhaps" it would be of value to me to do this. I'm fine to not. But that's not fair, I should wait to decide that after I understand what it means in the first place.
     
M: Only your own impeccability can be probed by yourself internally to find the answers, and ultimately seek the answer if you want to circumvent the eagle or not.
     
R: I can't wait (in the expression sense of the term) until peace flows from me
     
R: Rick
     
M: and there are subcomponents within that statement.. Peace, Rick, peace ...
     
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R: Hi Michael,
     
It's interesting that I've always known that I could follow anyone's thinking given the chance to ask questions, but what I'm noticing is how little practice I've had at critical thinking and I'm seeing myself as quite slow at it as a result. Your breakdown below is a good example. I wasn't able to just read it through and "get" it. And the yawn is there again. I did notice on the read through that I've often thought of how I use words that I don't understand at all as if I did understand them: "The Spirit," for example.
     
M: Since this is a pattern in the manner that you have reported it, the challenge is to discover "why" the pattern is in place, yawn and all. There are several potential models of explanation. Remember, I'll be in Gilroy for the rest of the week.
     
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R: Enjoy Gilroy, peace (as if I knew what it meant) - Rick
     
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M: Hummm. Not an encouraging statement.
     
R: I just finished reading The Sorcerer's Crossing and will, at some point, add it to my compilation. I very much enjoyed it and thank you for recommending it to me. One thing I've wondered about with CC books, and now this one, is the nearly absolute strictness involved in the reported stories: months in a cave recapitulating, mastering tree climbing. Do you think all of that is accurate? Were these people really under such strictness? The discipline described is so very nearly absolute.
     
M: Yes. There are less-intense approaches to be certain, however the process and the result is mandatory - however accomplished through whatever time period.
     
R: Then, in Castaneda's introduction to Taisha Abelar's book he says that she was in don Juan's group, but from the book it would seem that Taisha Abelar's teachers were in the group with don Juan under Julian and therefore Julian's teachings were the link not don Juan's as CC reported.
     
M: Yes. You are correct. This was written in the later segment of CC's time. By then, he had a growing inaccuracy. CC did NOT have "the ability". He was only a scribe: a reporter. After DJM and Don Genaro departed, he only had the others of the group to work with and he started placing distance between himself and the others.
     
R: I'm wondering if Taisha Abelar will now go on as CC did (with more books). His first book had 5 pages that I put into my compilation, compared to 60 pages from The Fire From Within. I suspect that Taisha Abelar's book will also need only about 5 pages as it too is mostly story.
     
M: Yes.
     
R: I know you've encouraged me to end my emails with "Peace," or at least that is how I've interpreted your "peace, Rick, peace," but I really couldn't do it unless it is understood that I'm doing it just as an exercise, perhaps to just see what happens with doing it. What I understand "peace" to be is something I don't have yet and therefore I won't use it unless you want me to just as an exercise. So, I'd of done better, I suppose, by saying instead of, "peace (as if I knew what it meant)," "Peace (as if I knew experiencially what it meant). Your response was a surprise to me. I suspect that you may have pigeon holed me from my past major rant and a couple of minor ones (though I don't recall what the minor ones were right off hand). Perhaps that sentence is what I should take apart: "Not," something that isn't, "an," one, "encouraging," that which encourages, gives courage to, gives the power to be oneself, with "statement," something that is said or written in order to state, to say, to express, a thing, thus, it looks that you are suggesting that my closing doesn't give me the power to be myself. Interesting, it looks like you have not pigeon holed me after all, but rather have pointed out another area where I can do better. okay! I shall be more careful with words.
     
M: The above was/is an example of "extension" that we discussed before. The words, it must be emphasized, are prototypes of your thoughts. The admonishment is more likely to be "be careful with your thoughts" because if you accomplish that, the words will be an accurate representation of your thoughts - not just rattle. You were eventually correct: you were not pigeon-holed.
     
Peace (as an experiment, I won't add this parenthesis again) Rick
     
M: Experiment that leads to understanding is precisely an important mechanism of this process.
     
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R: I've read the first 10th of Penrose's book and am thrilled by the way he seems to be following what my dad once told me, "A good speech is one written so that an 8th grader can understand it." That seems to be (so far) Penrose's approach to mathematics in his book and that is perfect for me as 8th grade was about when I stopped learning math. Anyway, I like that he is explaining everything so carefully, though, just glancing through the book, well, if I end up able to follow what looks to me like some pretty advanced stuff, I'll be even more thrilled.
     
M: Great. Perhaps it will be a process of discovery for you.
     
R: With the "peace," I'm not clear that you are suggesting that I write it as an exercise, and I still find it uncomfortable to write so I will conduct the reverse of the experiment. It seems to me from what you wrote: "Experiment that leads to understanding is precisely an important mechanism of this process," that not writing it would be equally valid.
     
R: Thank you
     
M: Correct!
     
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R: Michael, are you able to "tune in" to my thinking? You have indicated something similar at times and I was just wondering as your emails of late have seemed to be following my mood/thinking somehow.
     
M: Yes. It's not always consistent IF there are distractions moving me at the time, but usually, "yes".
     
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R: It has been a few months now since I've had any volitional dreams, let alone any, what I suppose I might start calling, double dreams. That is, dreams involving my double, if that is what it is.
     
M: Glad you clarified the statement. Double dreams sometimes mean a dream within a dream.
     
R: It started with a regular dream in which I met a boy, one of my son's friends from a few years ago. In the dream the boy informed me of his having Alzheimer's disease (my mother has it and is now forgetting who I am when I call). The boy began to explain to me that Alzheimer's was in fact an expansion of the mental ability at such a rate that information was virtually spread out so thinly as to no longer be accessible; as if one's whole memory bank was the surface of a deflated balloon which suddenly became fully expanded thus disjointing all memory.
     
M: Well said: like broken connections ...
     
R: I told him that I understood completely and began to explain to him the workings of a universal Turing machine as an analogy and somehow I knew that that was the explanation of what he had just told me. I woke, wondering if it could be that my mom has actually had an expansion rather than a loss of memory. I also was aware that my explanation of a universal Turing machine was not really that, but rather the beginning basics of it that I've understood so far in my reading of The Emperor's New Mind. That dream was in the area of a volitional dream for realness, but without the accompanying knowledge that I was dreaming as I've talked about in past emails.
     
M: At least it seems to have setup a prototype of a manner of explanation for you, and it was to this point, developmental. The Turing machine (by the way, a play was written about Turing, called "breaking the code" - I've seen it performed because Turing had ultimately a tragic life). Back to the point - it was developmental because you were using it as a prototype to explain possibilities within the framework of study that is new to you - Turing et al. Good!
     
R: However long of a time later it was, I'm not sure, but next I "awoke" (after again falling to sleep) to find a liquid like muddish ceiling above me about arms length away. For about the first second I accepted it as normal as I was lying there awake, but then quickly realized that I was again in my dreaming body (I've described before how I once believed that the "real" me was having my head massages and holding the hand of something unseen only to, about 4 months ago, make the distinction that that was my dreaming body in the same location as my "real" body). So anyway, I reached up with my left hand and put my finger into the mud and it acted like the liquid wall of a sci-fi movie. So fine, I put my right hand up to touch it and the wall receded and, I guess, disappeared.
     
M: So far, it sounds from the description a lot like the beginning of the "fog" that CC discusses where the fog sets up a boundary as the beginning entry point of the second attention - plasticity and all.
     
R: I was still lying there thinking of what I wanted to experiment with and recalled that moving was simply a matter of intending it. So I intended my arms to make a symmetrical pattern in the space above me and did that effortlessly. I noticed then that my legs, more especially from my feet, were about four inches off the ground and that fact became a sort of reference point for my making the distinction between the "real" me lying there and my dreaming body lying there. I mention that because it is a bit confusing to be thinking as you normally think, but in your dreaming body. The tendency is to think you are back awake in the "real" you.
     
M: They are - both states - "real". It's pointless to make a distinction between the "dreaming body you" and what you're calling the "real" you.
     
R: Well, that was that for a while, maybe as much as two or three minutes and then I was touched again by something producing the physical sensation on my right foot of a course sand paper; not pain, just not pleasant, and I jerked my foot away. I then woke up.
     
M: If you could have "stayed with it" you might have learned more from the experience.
     
R: Often there is a sensation at the back of my head where I'd guess the spinal cord reaches the brain of a, not exactly tingling ... but ... not exactly a slight grinding tingling ... but ... it's not at all unpleasant, when it occurs I always know that I'm going back into the double experience (if I've just come out of it) or into a volitional dream, or, if I don't go into one of those upon feeling it, than I assume that I was close to going into it and couldn't because I couldn't quite down my thoughts enough.
     
M: Suggest remembering that the partition between the "real", that is the physical you, and the double you, is only a matter of intent. At this point you seem to need the "security" of having the physical you close by. When the "double" you can move about without this reference then you will discover travel to one extent or another.
     
R: I can't help wondering about the three experiences about four months ago that occurred over a short span of days in which, with the last one, I was actually holding what seemed to be a whole other's body as if someone was wholly with me, and how at the end of that experience that body moved over me from one side to the other and disappeared (physical sensation wise as there was no visual). Now last night, to have had the physical contact be so -- sort of rude -- with the rough brush on my foot. I didn't like that.
     
M: It was just a test of you willingness to leave the human form of self importance behind. This conclusion is yielded by the "didn't like", an "I" statement, and the "sort of rude" as if contact with allies had some protocol of being "polite" or a protocol of following an agenda and/or approach that YOU would find appropriate or acceptable - another "I" statement.
     
R: But anyway, I have the sense that this dreaming experience has begun again out of an expanding sense of impeccability. I've been "with" my kids more for one thing when I'm with them. That is, I'm listening to them instead of reacting quite so much.
     
M: Good.
     
R: If there is any light which you could shed on these things (especially the dreaming body/dreaming part) I'd be very happy to have it.
     
M: What CC calls "the double" is actually your sentient consciousness, separating itself from the physical body.
     
R: I feel a bit guilty for not using "Peace" as an ending. I don't know why I still don't feel authentic with it. Perhaps it's that I feel somewhat guilty for being sceptical of you at times. Actually, that's why I asked if you could read my thoughts. I've even imagined, since Bob wrote of meeting you, that he was a set-up. That you'd had him as a student all along and had him email me as a test. That I passed it by referring him to you and therefore you switched to closing with "love." And that then I went back into my self-important doubting of you when you used what seemed to me to be harshness when you said "not an encouraging statement" about another expression I'd made of my discomfort with the word "peace." I considered that you were following intuitively my doubt of you and therefore dropped any endings at all and became very brief with your notes.
     
M: I've been attempting to be efficient and more succinct. The rest of the above paragraph is really only your speculation. Bob was not a setup, at least by me of course. Since those who have lost the human form have no real dependencies, then what I think you think of me is not ever an issue: it never crosses my thoughts.
     
R: Then, when I was -- most self-importantly -- even thinking that it might be time to let it end by my no longer sending anything to solicit a response from you, along comes Bob's report of having met you to which I answered simply, "I'd love to hear about it." And now I'm back to not wanting to lose you -- which I recognize is not even close to an ideal place for me to be but certainly miles better than "letting it end." OH!!!!!! it just hit me and then as quickly left ... something from last night that I realized ... damn ... what was it ... self-importance ... that's it. Every time I see something that could be of value to others ... I saw that my motive is ALWAYS the attention I'll get as someone doing something good. I saw it as I laid awake just after the "Alzheimers as expansion" dream and was day dreaming on and on about the "great discovery" and what it could mean. I saw that my aim was so much centered on being recognized for being good rather than on any good that such a discovered truth might bring to others. That was when the double dream happened, after that recognition of my self-importance!
     
M: Well, at the very least, the discovery above within your text highlights dependencies on others as an element of how you relate, what motivates you, and possibly how you feel about yourself. When you isolate yourself, from me under whatever guise you use, or from others, you are only asserting more "I-dependency" statements in the form of ego.
     
R: It's interesting how I've almost placed my dreaming experience in the category of "common place experience," rather than to hold it as special and along the way of knowledge ... even an indication of great progress. Rather, I'm jealous of Bob's day time stuff and of his meeting you. I'm very happy to have told you these things. Sort of like in Sorcerer's Crossing when she said to herself, "I could feel his lust" and he said back as if she'd actually spoken it, "What the hell do you mean, 'You could feel my lust?'" and it was back to the treehouse for her to continue working on herself.
     
M: (grin, smile)
     
R: Oh, Michael, Michael, what are you going to do with me? (said rhetorically)(smile.) - Rick
     
M: (smile )returned..
     
---------- R: I was thinking about having written that "I don't want to lose you." What I'm asking now is, "Do I know what I want?"(not related to my relationship with you).
     
M: That is, of course, the far more on-the-point question to answer ...
     
R: In the social sphere it seems to me that the answer is, no. I was considering while lying in bed this morning, ... what society is. It's a lot of agreement about a lot of things (including agreement that there be disagreement), then I thought about all of the different societies with their different rules and then into the past societies ... I began thinking of how my thinking that I'm so much out of the mainstream of society is not really true. It is much more true that I am in this society 99.99% as much as everyone else. I'd been believing that since I don't have health care insurance, or any other insurance, have no credit or property and, again, am on a pretty much moment to moment earning of the money to buy food and pay the rent for self and two kids while totally abstaining from government handouts (as have I always), that I was outside of society. But that's not the case at all, I'm totally in society and simple have the above facts as how I'm doing my "in society thing."
     
M: True, simply said. It's only a matter of the striation relative to society.
     
R: Well, maybe it doesn't sound good to say, "I don't want to lose you," but actually, I don't. And yet, it looks to me like mostly selfish reasons for that ... that is, what am I going to get to give me a boost along the way of knowledge. But writing this letter I don't even feel like I'm even on it (the way of knowledge). I suppose that's because this letter is all 'thinking' (not necessarily in the intelligent sense).
     
M: Well, at least you are able to express yourself in this manner. Relative to "loosing me", you might want to consider all of the nuances that this statement might include because it's not me that is at issue.
     
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R: from The Fire From Within. "To be in an impeccable state of being is to be free of rational assumptions and rational fears." Here's a rational assumption I could put on my list of ones to be free of: "I don't know how to free myself from rational assumptions." Here is another one: "Actually I do know -- turn off the internal dialogue." Might as well throw in a rational fear: "It would be scary as hell to trust." - Rick
     
M: And a person's ability to trust is founded upon the tenet of trusting him/her self.
     
---------- R: I'm now 1/4th through the Penrose book. At first I thought I'd try to keep up with all of the math but have since found that taking his beginning advise of skipping over some of it if you don't get it, is working well for me.
     
M: Yes. Sometimes people get tangled up in the details and forget to see the message ...
     
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R: Michael, what is the effect of relying on something like Mescalito.
     
M: For those who rely on Mescalito for a long period, and it is a dependency, to cause a transition, and dependency-based transitions are too conditional for the true path to freedom (which is held entirely within oneself). Any benefit that allies bring, or chemically based alterations bring, are useful as tools for but a brief period.
     
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R: It would be great to meet you (feeling so greedy, wanting that boost into waking second attention. Sense that it would be, perhaps, resisted (on this side), sigh, but boy, ... would love the try)
     
M: There is a good possibility that "when" the time is correct, it will happen - particularly when it is understood based on knowledge, that were would be no resistance.
     
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M: There is a formal component of the third attention, a protocol if you wish. It is a rather "serious", but not stern. I'll try to expand on that later when I can contemplate parallels.
     
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R: I was reminded of this from The Power of Silence (from my compilation):
     
"Everything a teacher puts his apprentice through, each of the things he shows him is only a device to convince him that there�s more to us than meets the eye. We don�t need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he�s learning sorcery, but all he�s doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it."
     
R: I'm asking myself, "What is it, to be 'convinced of the incalculable power at our fingertips.'?" It's a rhetorical question. Yet ... (saying more) ... More than rhetorical, it strikes me as a bit of a waste of time to ask it.
     
M: Somehow this seems to have become tangled in more than one issue for you. Suggest looking at each sub-issue, one at a time.
     
M: Asking a question, even quietly to self, is usually not a waste of time because it can start a process that new information, and eventually knowledge, can evolve from. It IS a waste to time to mind-churn over it, but not the ask the question, and not to carefully think through the process. The question, whatever it might be: leads to a concept; concept leads to possibilities; possibilities lead to processes; processes lead to the gathering of information; information applied into experience becomes knowledge; and this is derived from someone "asking a question", even of self.
     
R: You could start talking about the different levels of being convinced. But what would that do for anyone -- talking about it, that is? Nothing that I can see. I'm already convinced to the degree that I am convinced (dauuuu), as is everyone else. Being convinced, I then act ... and wait ... or I don't act ... it looks to me to be just what is going on with the way of knowledge ... on an individual basis.
     
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NOTE: More people come into the exchanges now as I introduce Ed (BL) and Linda (L) to Michael. Some of them overlap, time wise, but I've separated them to person, placing this next with Linda, first.
     
Linda to Rick, first email: Very strange ... the evening of this new millenium ... in the place where I live it is 6:45 pm ... people getting ready for the midnight parties ... and I am here in front of this computer just getting into virtual places in a random way ... a friend called and half listening to him with my ears and half listening to something else with some other sense, and while talking to him I remembered Castaneda. My friend was talking about dreaming, and while he talked I arrived by chance to this site. I had no plans for tonight, the millenium celebration, now I know I am back with don juan's teachings tonight. Many years ago I read all the books, thought I needed to absorbe his teachings, maybe even in some practical way things happened to me because of them, maybe not. At this moment something is telling me to write this e-mail to you, to a stranger from a stranger. My name is Linda and still I do not know who I am, but it does not matter, maybe I could have been a warrior, maybe not. I just want to thank you for this web site. I might find some answers in your compilations of Castaneda tonight. I am going to print the files now. And go with them through the night into the next millenium, whatever that means. Thank you. - Linda
     
Rick to Linda: What it means, Linda, is that you are on the path of knowledge. Write anytime.
     
R: Michael, I sent Linda's letter (to you) as I had a "chill" run through me as I read it.
     
M: Lovely, Rick. Lovely. The significance: you are also on the path Rick ...
     
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Rick to Linda: I'm including your email, to Michael. Already, this is something for Michael's response, not mine (Michael, that is my request of you, that you reply to this copied below second email from Linda). Linda, Michael has given his tacit approval that I make such a request of him by the fact that he copied to you his response to the second email from me to you.
     
M: Yes. Perceptions have instructed that Linda is a candidate and it is considered important to embrace Linda.
     
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L: Dear Rick,
     
L: I received your second letter two hours ago. I cannot say I am surprised though I have no idea why I am not. And I must admit that when I saw that there was a new e-mail from you, even before opening it, this time I was the one that felt a chill. So I waited some minutes before reading it, breathing in something which was familiar/unfamiliar to me. And it was not "air".
     
L: I read what you wrote to me. And then, only in a superficial way, the beginning of your dialogue with Michael. I printed the whole letter and want to read it deeply before I come back to the computer and write back to you.
     
L: But before I write again I wanted you to know that this is very weird. It feels as if time had stopped. The movements of my hands are slower. The expression in my face is different. Can silence be talking at this moment? Is that possible?
     
L: I feel I cannot use my normal thinking while writing this words. There is a pause between my words.
     
L: What is there/here/ somewhere between the words we'll know it later. I feel you and Michael are already able to describe it, while in me it is basically an echo touching the borders of my awareness.
     
L: I will go and read the printed letter now.
     
L: Thank you for sharing with me.
     
L: I will tell you more about me soon. - Linda
     
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M to R: Some time ago, we had a discussion on the "technique" of interaction between a teacher and a candidate (rather recently, by memory). As you review at least these initial exchanges with Bob, Linda, and Ed, you can find a "living" example of what was said in the prior exchanges with you, on the subject of a teacher "tuning" to the candidate ...
     
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L: to M: Hi Michael
     
L: As you know I have read your first three letters from/to Rick.
     
L: I sense a pause in my thoughts
     
L: I am having a vision of an arrow floating motionless in the air
     
L: I always felt I had some clues, but never found the keys - Linda
     
M: The arrow is the sense of direction. To place it in motion in order that you might "find" the motion, intent in the direction that the arrow is pointing, is required. Absent intent, nothing occurs; nothing is gained. Study impeccability of self to learn why the arrow has not been placed into motion and why one has not followed.
     
R: This speaks to me.
     
M: Understood. It would speak to almost anyone on the threshold of enhancement!
     
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(NOTE: Integrated dialogues of about 6 emails.)
     
L: Hello Michael,
     
L: It took me a little long to reply, have been at work, feel a little tired I still have a conflict between a life dedicated to earn a living and the real path of my heart
     
L: I know one day the two will melt and I will not feel any split
     
M: There is no particular reason why the two cannot be integrated, since "work" can offer a learning experience through the contact with others. At the worst, "work" can be a simple structural component but in my experience by examining myself as I am in the process of "work", it's possible to evaluate where the progress of loosing the human form is. Said in that manner, "work" is a form of a petty tyrant to teach us how we are doing "on the way".
     
L: I enjoy my work but I am having some trouble when I need to be patient with people that work with me
     
M: When you learn to loose the human form, patience will never be a problem. It is necessary to make some adjustments in working with others, not in deference to them but rather in efficiency to self: the conservation of energy.
     
L: Thank you Michael for your so special attention I hope my presence here has some benefit for you and Rick as well.
     
M: Assuming that we continue, there is benefit in all ways because as you loose the human form and as you gain ability and eventually thwart the Eagle of dependencies, you will add your sentient consciousness as an energy form to the universe. There is no altruism whatever. In the third attention, we exist in the form of individuals that on intent and will can couple to the consortium of sentient energy to learn and be enhanced through that coupling, mutually, and then separate and travel throughout the universe as a "pure being" of energy. It is an absolutely marvelous state of being.
     
------------------
     
L: Rick, I am here writing to you again, after having read your first 3 written connections with Michael, to whom I am also sending a copy of this letter.
     
L: Again I want to thank you, and Michael, for having welcomed me. When I wrote to you the first time I was really doing something without expectations. I simply followed some instinct that was telling me to write.
     
M: Congratulations! That is a very "non" human form approach, and wholly appropriate.
     
L: I feel I am still afraid of totally loosing the human form approach. And this brings me conflict in life. I know I need to resolve the issue of impecability, and by that remove my needs of being what I am not.
     
M: Start with full acceptance of the self that you are, and then learn what dependencies based on fear cause you to "hang onto" the human form. What is it about the emotions and the dependencies of the human form that you feel the need to embrace? What do you fear will happen if you unbind yourself?
     
L: There was a door open and I got in. I could have found vacuum or treasures.
     
M: True, however, it was "your intent" to investigate what might be found beyond the portal that you sensed as open, and it requires a relatively high level of self-esteem (more evidence of non-human form issues) to explore that there might be a benefit for moving through the portal because you "know" that you would be able to deal with it, or reject it, as impeccability would dictate.
     
L: the fact that I naturally sense the need of impecabilty, sometimes is not as strong as the feeling that I am different, seeking what others don't. There are moments I follow the arrow, I use intent and I know. Seeking started in me at early age, after years of dependence in childhood and when the need of freedom was re-born in me, around age 16.
     
M: Understood, and in my own processes there are close parallels as there always seem to be for those, naturally as part of their natural processes, are drawn to be seekers and to engage the way of knowledge: you have no real choice; advance or be food for the Eagle. For most of us for a time, the sense that we are "different" is a basis of fear, and occasionally ego, because that is what we understand in the manner of society. Also, the dependencies of the "you should's" of society have a way of attempting to draw us, and then slam us with conflicts, with the result that confusion prevails in an oscillatory form that can destruct us. To progress, simply accept that you are a seeker and that you are compelled to be in this state and that it is natural to you and always will be: forever. Then accept the fact that as a seeker you do not share much in common with most in society, and learn what their examples can teach you. When one learns to truly enjoin in the power and energy of the universe, one is never - repeat never - lonely again.
     
M: What you will find, ultimately, will be determined primarily by yourself as you investigate what occurs in these exchanges. Initially, information will be exchanged, but information is not by itself "knowledge".
     
L: How can we know the difference between information and knowledge?
     
M: Consider anything that you "know" with confidence. Information takes the form of facts. Facts in the form of information can provide an impetus for more study. At some point, though, the information must be used to convert it into experience. If the experience does not blend and match the information, either the information was not fully accurate or the understanding of the experience was not complete. Impeccability then demands that both information and experience be evaluated to be validated, and adjusted, until the knowledge is integrated. At the point of full and uncompromised integration, without any conflict, there will be wholly no doubt that "knowledge" has been gained because it has been tested and re-tested and found to be fundamentally sound in practice and concept.
     
M: True knowledge occurs when information become utilized as an impetus to gain experience. Experience that is processed into understood abilities/wisdom, becomes "knowledge".
     
L: It is weird how my questions are being answered by your words ... something in the rhythm of time is playing here, back and forth.
     
M: You would be amazed if it was appropriate for me to note how connected we are becoming, and how integrated your path will take you. These words will be manifested not only through your perception but through your experience.
     
L: And still I am not trying to know or imagine where this can take me or what my task may be in the learning connection you are experiencing with Michael.
     
M: At any point, one cannot directly know in the initial phases of any particular ramp into expanded ability. At first, most humans tend to place their "desires" into a form of "anticipation" which is usually based on some preconceptions that are carried forward from earlier events/exposures/experiences in life.
     
L: I respect experience but try not to base my new acts in it. But again here comes the conflict. According to many, one should "learn" from past mistakes and change according to them.
     
M: Change is not an appropriate term: try evolve as an approach. You will always be Linda, and the attributes we share will be only enhanced as you evolve. The so-called "adjustment" is only a natural evolution.
     
L: Action and result. The weird thing is that I do not believe in that and as you see there is a power inside me that has some knowledge of intent but still I (my human form, ego) try to get "fixed". There is a fantasy of reward, of easy ways (that don't come). I feel that in order to run away from my fears I simple create more.
     
M: Ah, because one can never run away or escape fear. One only can resolve through recapitulation what causes the fear. There is nothing per se to "fix", only a flow to evolve.
     
M: Your approach is wholly appropriate because as noted before, it is your intent and your impeccability that results in your evolution, and anything else is simply facilitation.
     
L: I feel my need to accomplish evolution, like a seed that has to become, manifest. I know it is there. I am open to let it be with my intent. I feel I want to be impecable about it. Though, there is "something" unknown to me that stops me.
     
M: The basis of this will continue to compel self-probing to understand.
     
L: I am struggling. At this moment I feel stronger, I do not know where to find the allies. The power that defeats me usually easily wins the battle. I fall into boredom, lack of clarity and motivation. I loose energy very easily.
     
M: You have been identified as a candidate. The allies will present themselves in a manner that is commensurate with your abilities. One begets another in a natural progression. Loose the tendency to self-defeat.
     
L: I do not know if biographical details are needed at this point, but I want to somehow introduce myself to you and Michael.
     
M: Most individuals that choose to extend themselves do choose to offer some details about "where they come from" to explain their current position in life. It is perceived that there has been a reasonable amount of turbulence in your early life and that you had decided early to be a seeker for something that was (at the time) very undefined.
     
L: It was freedom what I was looking for. My journey was not easy. I went out to the feld of life with no preparation, just my instincts and my "objectivity".
     
M: Of my own early life the same could be said, and the fits and starts to desperately get onto the path were, to put it mildly, turbulent. This process seems to be normal for those like you/us. Usually, our own lack of ability/information/knowledge causes the confusion that causes the turbulence. Then, after we achieve some foothold on the foregoing, we then have to unlearn most of the survival human form blockades that we have erected based on the turmoil of the past, and this includes fear.
     
M: As you have experimented with information and within yourself, partially aided in fits and starts through experiences with other humans, there have been pointers that it is required by and for yourself that "you are on the way of knowledge". It fits perfectly, and this is the "way" of your own evolution into the third attention of infinity.
     
L: You talk about third attention. I know I have experienced the second but do not have any control over the switches. How is it that you see I do it?
     
M: In moments when you silence the internal dialogue and do not replace with it with something like a mantra, which is a quieter form of distraction, you become vulnerable to seeing and participating in the second attention. Ultimately, by being wholly vulnerable, you will become invulnerable. My experiences have taken me in travels into and through the third attention on many occasions, and three of these have been with my body clinically dead (for purposes of introduction). Beyond the normal reports in clinical death of "the light" (really only second attention perceptions) there is the eternity of the third attention and all of the power and energy of the universe and the sentience that it holds in the state of "pure being".
     
L: As I said in my first letter, I have some confusion about who or what I am.
     
M: Please be assured that this is a positive! Absent that confusion, you would not be a seeker. Please be assured that this frame of concept is quite normal for those who are predisposed, probably through the inheritance of DNA evolution, to "continue" into the third attention.
     
L: are there any "first" steps into this continuation?
     
M: You are taking them ... they will expand quickly as you loose fear and become vulnerable.
     
L: But using rational symbols and chronological linear event description, I was born (snip) and have a son.
     
As a child I used to "see" things. Weird and frightening sometimes.
     
M: Your history parallels mine, for purposes of introduction. In my history, the events became intense starting about age eight. My own history comes from Spain: born to a mother from Seville, grandparents from Seville and Granada; father's family from Scotland (the American side of my name).
     
L: I visited Spain.
     
M: The energy perceived in the swath between Granada and Seville is intense probably because of my ancestry.
     
L: I cannot recall when this stopped.
     
M: The need for protection (societally, that is) caused it to stop. Since it was something of a conflict from your "natural" self, and accordingly un-natural to you, stopping it would be a slow and even perhaps tortuous experience over time.
     
L: After I "gave up" many natural sides of me, I became what can be called a "good girl".
     
M: This requires further discussion.
     
M: Opening it back up to flow with the nature of the universe so that you can find peace will probably take some un-doing.
     
L: How can this un-doing be started?
     
M: Study your worst conflicts and fears. Learn them in the form that they are petty tyrants. Then, recapitulate and discover why they are in place. Then we can open more.
     
L: I just know that sometimes a switch in my perception spontaneously still takes place (usually after having focused many hours on work or when I am tired) and normal objects like food, clothes, clouds, or anything, become something similar to the fluid plasmic forms I used to see in front of my eyes (it did not matter if my eyes were open or closed, I simply could not stop "seeing" what was there in front of me) when I was small. Normally I tend to escape from this, trying to focus back into analytical interpretation. I feel that what happens to me is that I can see "objectively". But it frightens me.
     
M: It will take some undoing and loosing more of the human form so that you can ultimately be yourself.
     
L: I can make a list of the facts that slow down the process of loosing the human form in me. Though invented by my ego, they still are real, and they keep me so busy that I forget about myself.
     
M: Making a list is only a tool. Dissolve the list within yourself.
     
L: After you wrote to me the second time, Rick, I visited your web site again and realized that you work (beautifully) with clay. This brought me back to something that is very related to the plasmic forms I used to see. Though I am very creative and can design in paper (or digitally) wonderful three dimensional objects, (and I am fascinated with fractals), I simply CANNOT create with clay or make any kind of sculpture, or three dimensional object. Because if I do so, instantly the frightening amorphous creatures/shapes become alive out of the forming material and I get frozen with fear. I know that it has a lot to do with a switch in attention that happens in me and that I cannot control, but anyway this subject has stayed as a mystery for me all this time.
     
M: A great place to initiate exploration: "why?".
     
L: The most common answer to why is: "I am afraid"
     
M: Then, again, "why"?
     
L: I spend a lot of time on my own. This brings me sometimes to spontaneous energy dancing.
     
M: We all do, those of us "on the way of knowledge": it is necessary; but by definition it does not have to be isolation. The spontaneous energy will eventually be focused into true ability when the fear subsides and more of the human form is lost.
     
L: How do we find the true ability? What is the source? Do allies have a task here? Is some special practice needed?
     
M: You will learn that when fear is removed, much opens quickly. Your ability to trust starts with your ability to trust yourself. Your ability to love and connect, starts with your ability to love yourself.
     
L: I dream very lively dreams. But never tried to do real dreaming work on purpose.
     
M: You don't have much choice: the dream for you is a safe place initially for exploration and eventually a safe place for allies in the third attention to approach you.
     
L: As I wrote to you I had a very vivid dream experience last night
     
L: I know these (or many other) personal details are not yet really important at this stage, not as a picture of what I am or potentially can be. I simply needed to make this a little less "ghostly" and also felt like sharing. If you or Michael want or find it necessary to know more about me, I am open to answer those questions. I imagine Michael is somewhere in America.
     
M: Yes, have lived in Lima, Peru in the mid-sixties; know the culture well; aged 58.
     
L: I will be glad to hear from you again. I will be reading your Castaneda's work compilation this weekend. I printed it all. - Linda
     
M: Hello. My name is Michael. In the Spanish culture: (snip); of the family of Alvar Nunez Cabeza de Vaca, author of the book "Nafragios", circa 1526.
     
L: Hello. My name is Linda. I remember having read "Naufragios" at school. Literature class about Spanish writers. The name Alvar Nu�ez Cabeza de vac is familiar to me.
     
M: Alvar was trained by the Iguase tribe in the area now know as Florida, as a sorcerer. He held in his ability set the energy of the universe and performed acts of biblical note. These artifacts of ability tend to run in the family: then run in yours.
     
----------
     
R to M: Michael, reading this last note to Linda -- trying to be what I'm not has shown up from it for me. I see myself as a child wanting attention. I always want attention. I'm hiding behind that want somehow. As well, there is a sense of a hugeness and being on the brink of that hugeness that has opened for me from this note. Thank you both Rick
     
M to R: Ah, there is so very much more to come. Yes, the point being without commenting on your conclusions, there is high value and there is a hugeness (to use your word) and perhaps you are just beginning to view a little - just a little perhaps - from the perspective that run through myself continually.
     
---------------
     
R: Hi Michael,
     
Last night I was contemplating "lost human form dependencies," while lying in bed. I was doing it in a way that had me keeping my internal dialogue off for the most part ... it is continuing now and the "I" used repeatedly in this writing is showing itself for what it is ... well, ... that's inaccurate, anyway ... ... ... What is the "I" word doing when it rolls out on automatic; that is, when it rolls out as one's "natural" way of speaking?
     
M: In the way you describe, it is something sourced "from you".
     
R: Back to what I (ha ha) ... back to what was started above. ... I guess I'll keep using "I" as I'm allowing myself to be disrupted from this writing by continuing to catch it.
     
M: It's an interesting "check point" of self as you experiment with the "I" form to "self-test" what your meaning actually IS with the pronoun. The value for you, at least now, is in these self-tests to aid in understanding meaning and impeccability in your statements.
     
R: It's a bit of a challenge to describe last night as the value of it was in the turning off of the internal dialogue that occurred as a result of contemplating "lost human form dependencies." There were clearly insights coming into mind that were noticed for insights coming by way of the process I was involving myself in. One in particular was the faint and quick, but clear vision of a slowly, causally walking man and the accompanying thought to "slow the ... something something" I knew, last night, the missing two words and they didn't make sense to me then and I've now forgotten them. But I took it so somehow mean that there is a process I normally use in my internal dialogue life that goes to quickly and that slowing it down allows the internal dialogue to be off and that that was a key.
     
M: Yes. True. It's an important discovery for you. Slow the thoughts for reflex and impeccability.
     
R: So, not really understanding the meaning of the "slow guy," with the words "slow the ... " I continued to do what I was doing there, sort of an intending the internal dialogue off by contemplating the term "lost human form" (really just repeating to myself in a reminding way that human form equalled internal dialogue), and along with that then was this image of this slow casual guy and "slow the ... " That continued and I then strongly assumed that I could will myself from there into dreaming as I'd been able to do in the past on one clear occasion and perhaps on others. It didn't exactly work as plainly as that one time where I went right into dreaming without loosing a moment of consciousness, but I did then have a mild volitional dream (mild as it became volitional only at the end of it.)
     
M: Progress!
     
R: So that was that. But more than this reporting of it is the knowledge of the experience and that knowledge as a tool for continuing progress.
     
M: Yes.
     
R: Love, Rick
     
------------
     
R: I've had many considerations about how to end emails. I usually end with something like, "thanks," or "thank you," or just my name. With this one, (above) however, I found myself writing, "love." It just came out naturally with this email.
     
M: Another breakthrough! Another defensive position altered!
     
R: I see that it is not something mysterious but rather has everything to do with paying attention to who I am being. I'll write a bit more at the end of the following.
     
M: In the beginning, we all seem to "experiment" with various personality dramas that take up many roles just in the sense that actors play. Humans tend to emulate characters they observe in roles ranging from super-heros as children to other roles as adults. Sometimes these role-casts are never broken and the human simply moves from one role-character to another almost reflexively. When in a tough situation: become Clint Eastwood's dirty Harry, for example. Given this tendency in society, locking oneself into these roles eventually becomes a defensive position since there isn't an alternative of "self". Comments have been offered in the past about "stripping oneself of labels, positions or titles". Stripping oneself of "roles" is equally applicable. This process in society starts at a very early age: adults are forever posturing "role models" for children, for example.
     
------------
     
R: Since then, I've been aware of the "solitary bird"-ness of the way of knowledge. Just think, HUMAN FORM DEPENDENCIES ... "Solitary bird"-ness -- HUMAN FORM DEPENDENCIES." I guess it's simple: without human form dependencies (hfd) we are solitary birds (from the don Juan poem).
     
M: This is a temporary condition. Eventually when humans bind themselves to universal power/forces/allies, one is never isolated although it is still possible to be solitary. When Deepak Chopra, in "The Way of the Wizard" noted that when one evolves to the state of pure being where "unconditional love" prevails, then it becomes facilitated of connecting to others at any moment, at will, and isolation forever disappears.
     
R: I couldn't help noticing that damn near every thought I think stems from human form dependency. That realization is very freeing in the way it seems to be the stepping stone, for me at this point, into internal dialogue silence. And from there, it seems only natural to end an email with, "love." But then a moment later the internal dialogue (human form dependency) come(s) right back in and "love," as an ending, is back to being a platitude.
     
M: Still more indication of the transitional state. It is a beginning into the next phase for you.
     
R: I have a similar problem with, "Peace," as an ending. I take an ending to be the reported place in, call it, consciousness, that I'm writing from. So, to end with, "Peace," or "Love," most always stricks me, when I think of using it, as presumptuous.
     
M: Since it is YOUR state of perception to consider, it's not necessary to look beyond yourself.
     
R: Perhaps it is time to let that go and simply be sure that when I'm writing the ending, that I've taken a moment to notice the human form dependency; to be still, to enter inner silence, and quickly write the ending, sign it, and send it (smile-laughing at the absurdity) ... I will end with good advise from the Bible. "Be still and know" - Rick
     
M: It's worth mentioning that from experience, this indicates a process of what might be considered "oscillation" from one concept (historical) to another (new). Humans, for whatever it's worth, seem to do this at the threshold of change. Once the oscillations stabilize, then the next ramp of progress can begin.
     
Love - and peace
     
Michael
     
------------
     
NOTE: I've cut a personal exchange between Ed and Michael where the two related past hardships. Michael then writes:
     
M: Yes. There was another effect. Every once in a while, given the decades-long hardship that we have both experienced, there was a tendency to become impatient with "whiners", as in "what would you do if you had a "REAL" problem ... ", but that also passed with the understanding that everyone has limits and that pressing those limits is all anyone can do within their boundaries. We were both historically blessed with these problems because they expanded our bandwidths in many, many ways.
     
M: A refresher reading might help. There is another book from Ayn Rand, a small book, that is worth reading for it's first 60-ish pages. The name is "For The New Intellectual". In the first 60 pages, she discusses a litany of philosophers through history and their concepts that were all pointed to tearing down the individual in deference to society, most in the phony name of "altruism". The rest of the book is only reprints of various speeches that her characters made in the prior books. The first 60 pages is very much like a speech she made to the graduating class at West Point, wherein the attendees flooded in to the point where there was no room - they overwhelmed the facilities about 1972. Most of what Ayn Rand had projected in the previously noted books published in the 40's and 50's had all come true by the mid-70's.
     
Ed: Thanks, I will check into it. Warm Regards, and Peace
     
M: Good. It is believed that there will be a benefit to you to re-read these.
     
-----------
     
Bob: Now I am wondering about this, and we will be wrapping up all my reincarnation thoughts pretty soon ... what about the higher self.
     
M: First, the "higher self" is an extension of what is already setup to evolve. It's contained and often unexpressed, and CC might call it even "unknowable" - which is always the case until something is known.
     
Bob: Is the higher self also just a one shot affair, created with the body and then if you get awareness when you die it continues, if you don't ... then it is gone. This seems like it would be the case.
     
M: Yes. This is my understanding, based on experience. If one learns to release the self through expansion, then it continues, and it not, it dissipates. In some, who never learn to allow escape from the body or who do not have sufficient energy to expand it even within the body, then it seems to simply "die of containment" within the body. Others, who "sort of" have some ability to project but are too dependent, seem to experience a flash of awareness and then either they can find instantly the intent/will to remain coherent or they dissipate.
     
Bob: Also then there really is no " soul" unless you use that as a convenient reference for the part of you that's in the body ... but then it seems that we really are the body ... however the body being multi dimensional, i.e. physical and also the energy body ... in reincarnation the theory is that you perfect the soul, or spirit, that it comes here to learn, and that over many lives through reincarnation you perfect the physical body do that the true self can ( I am going to use the term dependence for ascendance since it seems it is the higher self that descends into the body, even though it is called ascendance) descend into the body and one evolve into being an ascended master and onward.
     
M: Hummm. Messy. It's far more simple than that. Try this to untangle.
     
M: a. The "higher self", the luminous cocoon, the soul, the energy being of self, are all the same entity: the sentient consciousness of pure being.
     
M: b. The "higher self" is "handed down" from generation to generation through the micro-code known as DNA. It is intrinsic and evolving from each generation to generation, and as DNA it is the result of everything that has gone before within your evolutionary process. YOU are the highest form of evolution that this process has experienced to this point.
     
M: c. The evolution of "you" and therefore all that went before you to cause you "to be" is now "up to you".
     
M: d. Within all that is "you" are fields and energies that are evolving through sub-atomic processes into molecular/genetic processes, to allow the fields and energy of sentience to project beyond the body. Without doing so, they are locked in the body of project in some limited low energy manner, also either being trapped in a low energy form, or failing.
     
M: Simple.
     
M: If you truly think about it given the intrinsic nature of all that constitutes you, your energy, your fields - everything - why on earth would reincarnation be required? It would be a horribly inefficient use of energy, and nature does not permit that in natural processes. Why would a "soul" return to an inefficient mechanism of "a body" when all that created it in the past is carried forward - efficiently - by DNA. It just does not make sense in anything other than old ideas that scrambled to find explanations for what is really a very natural process of evolution.
     
Bob: If it is a one time affair, then, damn our whole society sort of wastes our time on trivialities ... or perhaps its just that way ( I think more and more worrying about WHY is a waste of time).
     
M: Yes, but there are lessons to be learned in those trivialities. The error is, of course, to hang onto those trivialities forever.
     
Bob: The population of humans that have become inorganic beings must be pretty small compared to all the people that have lived.
     
M: Yes, and for a time that was found sad. As nearly as experience dictates, it is probably less than perhaps one percent, but that is really as much of a guess as not.
     
Bob: Also ... If the assemblage point assembles bands of awareness, it seems that some assemblage point, could assemble bands that perhaps were assembled by another person, and thus also give the appearance of memories which could lead one to think one has reincarnated
     
M: The assemblage point does not act independently: YOU assemble it; through your actions; through your growing knowledge; through your experience that becomes applied into being through knowledge.
     
Bob: Where does the assemblage point come from ... are we the assemblage point? Where is the seat of awareness?
     
M: If you consider yourself layers of "attributes", setup something like striations, then consider at what point these layer converge to bond into a whole. At the point that they converge, they could also be said at that point to "be assembled". This is the assemblage point, and it dynamically changes in intensity and location as one evolves.
     
Bob: You know I didn't ask you about this when we met and I should have ... I was wondering about my will. Did it show? I mean because of things I have felt in my solar plexus, and also because I do seem to have much more "will power " than most people I know. People even comment on it.
     
M: Your ability to "will" shows. The focus and impeccability to concentrate upon this so it remains a constant rather than being in place in various intensities and at various time frames, is a significant part of what loosing the human form and gaining knowledge is about.
     
M: By the way, this might be an interesting exchange to copy Rick on. If you feel that is the case, and since you sent it to me privately, please forward it to Rick if you wish to offer it.
     
M: Love
     
M: Michael ----------
     
M: Hello. Finally, I'm about caught up on all e/mails from you, Ed and Bob. Pay also attention to the woman that struck you. She is an important candidate.
     
R: I hate whining, Michael, so when I'm in a whiny mood I don't like to be around anyone.
     
M: Then look at "why" you might whine and determine that you're not going to do it - within yourself! If you whine internally, it's still a dependency and at that point it doesn't matter if you whine externally or not.
     
R: I'm going between concentrating on human form dependency as a way to still my mind and feeling sorry for myself about the fact that I have nothing I'm driven to do.
     
M: Ah, being "driven" to do something is an artifact of what society has been telling humans forever: DO SOMETHING!; BE SOMETHING! Usually the "something" is "something" that society finds acceptable and that IT can use for itself! If you can find the motivation to evolve yourself, personally, internally, then you are evolving.
     
R: I've heard it said that what makes people successful is not discipline but desire, that discipline follows desire, that is.
     
M: DJM/CC often pointed out to the discipline required to be successful in evolving. A university did a study many long yars (years) ago to learn why we have people with PhD's working at menial jobs, and high school dropouts (like Lawrence Welk and Del Webb of Del Webb Construction) who became very economically successful. The answer was only "motivation", and that is probably true of any human endeavour.
     
R: Oh well. It's nice to be "on the path," but my ... I could just go on and on about it all. It looks to me to boil down to ... I have no desire but the desire to desire something. Unfortunately that is not a practical place to be. Well, I wouldn't bother you with this, but what the hell? I know it won't effect (or infect) you. - Rick
     
M: Certainly it doesn't impact directly, however the cause of the dilemma is a question. For whatever it might be worth, over my own life I have historically cratered myself for my lack of economic success or whatever, or because of a lack of motivation to have major power as a corporate chieftain, but these are things that were dismissed eventually as silly human form dependencies. These items are all relative, and as one learns more about what one is or can be, and as these are experienced, the internal attributes rebalance themselves.
     
-----------
     
M: The assemblage point is "very" easy to see as a component/striation in the luminous form. The discussion about this is intended to assist in understanding "what" is being seen when the evolution is appropriate for it to "be" seen. It would be relatively easy to "show" this in a graphical art form, however, it's preferred, and more appropriate, that it all be "seen" when the time is correct for each individual so that the precise form will be objectively viewed and not "suggested" by reports directly.
     
R: I find myself reading it and kind of following it, but then, it doesn't seem to stick anywhere in me. But I'm very happy to have the information there as I assume that these concepts will be of more value to me when I ... well, not, "when I" anything, but just when they are (of more value to me). I suppose that to be (I guess this is my "when I") the point when I can see energy directly as it flows in the universe.
     
M: Yes. Very true.
     
M: It is very positive that you can participate in this manner because it dramatically adds to the dialogue to facilitate you.
     
-----------
     
M: One can never self-describe self as "a nagual" since that would form a dependency upon a label: one can only "be".
     
----------
     
L: I was asleep. It is 3:23 am middle of the night here. I had the intent of answering to Michaels' first e-mails in the morning. I was having a very strange dream. I felt engaged in some "active" and conscious kind of dreaming. (Never had this experience before). I was not doing that alone. It was like an active dream inside a normal dream.
     
M: Congratulations: this represents a significant process in gaining awareness. In impact, you were simultaneously aware of your position in the 1st attention, with a dream initiated in the 2nd attention, and a subsidiary dream on the bridge between the 2nd and third attentions. In it within this latter location that allies can be found to test and instruct a candidate. You might expect more of these experiences as long as you do not hold back.
     
L: At the same time that it was happening, I recall being very aware of my body, specially my back and neck. It was feeling very stretched and free. What I was doing with those partners was watching a tree. There were glows of lights between the leaves, going round, like small spirals (the size of big flowers) of energy. Different colors.
     
M: There are "components" of energy in everything, and in humans they are multi-colored with the colors relating to the intensity and form of the attribute that they represent. They often take the form of tetrahedrons as modules of energy from higher sentient forms, as humans.
     
L: I am half asleep now. I came out of bed half awakened by a thunder storm outside. I feel peaceful. Came directly to the computer which I had not turn off last night (I never do that). I have not read the two e-mails I now got from you Michael, yet. I do want to stay in this state and describe my dream first. I will answer to the e-mails probably tomorrow.
     
M: Good process!
     
L: I work out of home for many hours so it may take one day or two between my answers.
     
L: I do not remember more details of what I saw in the dream. I just know it was something done and repeated many times, and there was a continuous communication between me and the others who were watching those flows of energy with me.
     
M: As these occur, please pay attention to the details of "the others". There is a consortium of allies based in the third attention to assist you.
     
L: Our communication was in words, I was listening to their voices. and speaking to them with some voice of mine. They were describing what we were seeing. It was beautiful, natural, and at the same time, different.
     
M: Wholly understood.
     
L: I will go back to sleep now. I will answer to the other mail later tomorrow after work.
     
------------
     
Ed: Still chewing on the assemblage point post and have a draft letter in process. Very interesting subject. As mentioned previously, my experiences with "dreaming" have been limited. According to DJ, the "double" comes to one while in a dreaming state. To the best of my recollection, I don't recall having experienced "the other" in dreaming. However, the following was quite an experience.
     
M: It might be useful to retain in cognizance that "the double" is only one of the components of yourself. It's something like a matrix where components of self are not recognized per se and in that condition appear to be separate. The discussion on the assemblage point speaks to these matters.
     
Ed: My understanding of what you are saying is this: The 'double" is just another emanation on the assemblage point and most of us are not aware of it. We probably have many such emanations that we are not aware of . The goal is to lose the human form and then we can gain "the totality of self" awareness.
     
M: Confirmed.
     
Ed: The year was 1979. I was working in Chicago. After I got off work one day I decided to replenish myself at my favorite watering hole. Before I went into the bar I saw a friend having a very animated discussion with someone across the street. However, I couldn't make out who he was talking with. I yelled to him but couldn't get his attention. Oh, well, I thought, it's not really that important that I talk to him now. So I went into the bar.
     
Ed: I had been chewing the fat with the bartender for about a half hour when my friend walked in. I greeted him warmly and then noticed that his face was white as a sheet as he looked at me. He then turned around, went out the door and then right back in. "Ed, this is impossible, I've been across the street talking to you for the last half hour, so how did you get in here without me seeing you?" I assured him that I had not been across the street and had the bartender verify my presence here with him. But it was you, he insisted. At this time my assemblage point went to the place of no pity and I told him that was not really me, but my "double", as if this explanation was the most natural thing in the world. I ordered another round of beer and then proposed two toasts: one for me and one for my double. We ended up having a big laugh over it. But deep inside I knew that we had both experienced something extraordinary.
     
M: There are two elements to this: your friend calling to you and forming your double, and yourself believing that this function is separate.
     
Ed: How could my friend form my double? Was he doing it through his intent? Was he hacilunitating ? I thought I was forming it on an unconcious basis.
     
M: Yes to all. He had a need, and summoned the component of you that you were not aware of. His need was probably quite intense, and contact with you was probably expressed as a dependency for him - you were a security blanket in a way of speaking. You, probably because of your relationship, probably unconsciousness, yielded to his need. His intent started the form by calling to you: you responded.
     
M: For reference, there have been many similar experiences in my own history that parallel your report above. At this point, though they are not inadvertent but intended.
     
Ed: Are you saying that your double does not form inadvertently but happens when you intend it to form? How is this accomplished, through intent, after losing the human form?
     
M: Yes, and yes. Since it requires energy to project and connect to, it must be used efficiently and sparingly.
     
----------
     
R: As for my last email about the assemblage point, etc., I've noticed today that much of what you said did sink in on just the, so far, one reading. Again, however, and not that it's ever been called anything else, it is, as I see it, purely an intellectual exercise to discuss the transmission of individual attributes as DNA related.
     
M: No. That is not the case. It can be actually not just perceived, but "seen" as a component within the luminous cocoon. The explanation is primarily to describe what can be seen.
     
R: Wanting to add more such items as this last mentioned, and form a list (I'd already started numbering it and had to take out the first "1" as I didn't have a "2") I opened my compilation (in my real book edition) and was going to go to The Fire From Within where I know much of the "information about the universe" is located. But on opening the book, my eyes immediately fell on this (which did happen to be in The Fire From Within and right in the midst of exactly the stuff I was going looking for): "In order to corroborate the truths about awareness, you need energy."
     
M: Yes. Said another way: ability. Ability always invokes some form of energy since intent invokes ability.
     
R: Let me search "truths" for a moment.
     
R: Well, this has taken an unexpected turn and I wish to copy the following which came up first with a search in the compilation of the word "truths" --- again in The Fire From Within (where I've substituted "indescribable force" for Castaneda's term "The Eagle," as you may recall from the compilation's "Forward" and, interestingly, my justification for doing that is in this section as well). Michael, I would very much like your comments on this as it includes parts about the unknowable which you have previously indicated disagreement with.
     
M: The disagreement is only from the point of what "can" be known. Anything, by definition that is not known is "unknown", but to call something "unknowable" means literally that it can "never" be known and that is silly.
     
R: I would like to hear more about this as that part also strikes me as a contradiction in that -- how could we know it was there if it was beyond our possibilities.
     
M: Limit the comment to "beyond an individual's abilities at a given time" and it's closer to the truth. There isn't much limit to possibilities unless one chooses to direct self in that manner.
     
R: If there is something beyond our possibilities I would assume that we would never know it and therefore could only make statements about it such as, "there must be much beyond our possibilities." So when don Juan says, as he does below, that "we must recognize the difference," (between the unknown and the unknowable) how could that be. If we were able to recognize the difference, wouldn't it necessarily be within our possibilities as otherwise, what would we be recognizing (as different)?
     
M: Anytime an individual simply accepts something as unknowable, then he/she sets a defensive boundary on their process because any boundary is a self-limiting exercise. Why not simply accept that anything can be known if there is sufficient ability and preparation to know it? This is a very simple concept.
     
R: Here is the section (below the " -------"), and I also want to note that the second half of this (following the "* * *") is much the point I've been wanting to make these last two emails and which was, perhaps, is, -- summed up in the above quote of, "In order to corroborate the truths about awareness, you need energy." ------------ "There are a series of truths about awareness that have been arranged in a specific sequence for purposes of comprehension. The mastery of awareness consists in internalizing the total sequence of such truths.
     
M: Yes.
     
R: "The first truth is that our familiarity with the world we perceive compels us to believe that we are surrounded by objects, existing by themselves and as themselves, just as we perceive them, whereas, in fact, there is no world of objects, but a universe of the Indescribable Force�s emanations."
     
M: Yes, with the exception that it can be described in many ways, at least with analogies based upon experience.
     
R: "Before I can explain the Indescribable Force�s emanations, I have to talk about the known, the unknown, and the unknowable. The unknown is something that is veiled from man, shrouded perhaps by a terrifying context, but which, nonetheless, is within man�s reach. The unknown becomes the known at a given time. The unknowable, on the other hand, is the indescribable, the unthinkable, the unrealizable. It is something that will never be known to us, and yet it is there, dazzling and at the same time horrifying in its vastness."
     
M: There is an inherent conflict in the last of the above statement because what is said to be so terribly "unknowable" has the beginning of a description already stated within it. Therefore, when he said this, he described something for which he already HAD at least a partial description, and therefore there phenomena that was supposed to be so "unknowable" is being presented as partially known.
     
R: "There is a simple rule of thumb: in the face of the unknown, man is adventurous. It is a quality of the unknown to give us a sense of hope and happiness. Man feels robust, exhilarated. Even the apprehension that it arouses is very fulfilling. The new seers saw that man is at his best in the face of the unknown. The unknown and the known are really on the same footing, because both are within the reach of human perception. Seers, can leave the known at a given moment and enter into the unknown. Whatever is beyond our capacity to perceive is the unknowable."
     
M: Why would one automatically set these limits? Why would one accept it? This suggests that the speaker has not yet moved beyond the boundary of the second attention, and at the time of making the statement, has never travelled in the third attention.
     
R: "And the distinction between it and the knowable is crucial. Confusing the two would put seers in a most precarious position whenever they are confronted with the unknowable. Most of what�s out there is beyond our comprehension."
     
M: No agreement, other than "don't be confused".
     
R: * * * "The first truth about awareness is that the world out there is not really as we think it is. We think it is a world of objects and it�s not. You say you agree with me because everything could be reduced to being a field of energy. But you are merely intuiting a truth. To reason it out is not to verify it."
     
M: There is a large body of evidence to state that reason and verification co-exist.
     
R: "I am not interested in your agreement or disagreement, but in your attempt to comprehend what is involved in this truth. You cannot witness fields of energy; not as an average man, that is. Now, if you were able to see them, you would be a seer, in which case you would be explaining the truths about awareness."
     
M: Okay.
     
R: "Conclusions arrived at through reasoning have very little or no influence in altering the course of our lives. Hence, the countless examples of people who have the clearest convictions and yet act diametrically against them time and time again; and have as the only explanation for their behavior the idea that to err is human."
     
M: Disagree with the approach to the statement. Reason, through awareness, simply expands and reason does exist beyond the human form. If by "reason" it is limited to that bound within the human form, okay, but it's not a complete explanation.
     
R: "The first truth is that the world is as it looks and yet it isn�t. It�s not as solid and real as our perception has been led to believe, but it isn�t a mirage either. The world is not an illusion, as it has been said to be; it�s real on the one hand, and unreal on the other. Pay close attention to this, for it must be understood, not just accepted. We perceive. This is a hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive."
     
M: Okay.
     
R: "Something out there is affecting our senses. This is the part that is real. The unreal part is what our senses tell us is there."
     
M: It would be more accurate to say that the senses are only partially correct.
     
R: "Take a mountain, for instance. Our senses tell us that it is an object. It has size, color, form. We even have categories of mountains, and they are downright accurate. Nothing wrong with that; the flaw is simply that it has never occurred to us that our senses play only a superficial role. Our senses perceive the way they do because a specific feature of our awareness forces them to do so."
     
M: Okay.
     
R: "I�ve used the term �the world� to mean everything that surrounds us. I have a better term, of course, but it would be quite incomprehensible to you. Seers say that we think there is a world of objects out there only because of our awareness. But what�s really out there are the Indescribable Force�s emanations, fluid, forever in motion, and yet unchanged, eternal."
     
M: True.
     
R: * * * "The reason for the existence of all sentient beings is to enhance awareness. The old seers, risking untold dangers, actually saw the Indescribable Force which is the source of all sentient beings. They called that indescribable force the Eagle, because in the few glimpses that they could sustain, they saw it as something that resembled a black-and-white eagle of infinite size. They saw that it is the Indescribable Force that bestows awareness and creates sentient beings so that they will live and enrich the awareness it gives them with life. They also saw that it is the Indescribable Force, that devours that same enriched awareness after making sentient beings relinquish it at the moment of death. For the old seers to say that the reason for existence is to enhance awareness is not a matter of faith or deduction. They saw it."
     
M: The above paragraph is true enough, but it would take a little elaboration to expand it in terms that are broader and, for that matter, more accurate.
     
-----------
     
Ed: Since we have been discussing the assemblage point a few things seemed to be revelent, human form dependencies (hfd) . Just to make sure that's I'm on the same wave length as you regarding the assemblage point, I've put together a rather meager list to illuminate some of them. Please let me know if I'm on the right track.
     
M: Okay.
     
Ed: The following is the beginning of a list of attributes that make up our assemblage point:
     
Ed: Pride ... there is good pride, for example taking joy in doing one's "best" and then there is bad pride, such as ego gratification when one can feel "pride" because one has a bigger house, a better car etc. than others.
     
M: The valid point is "high self-esteem". This is esteem such that it has nothing to prove to others, and leads to the ability to unconditionally love, which is in turn a high indication of the loss of human form of dependencies. This comment works in alliance with your statement above.
     
Ed: Satisfaction ... the positive type, a feeling that one has done one's best, and the other; for example, taking satisfaction in seeing one's peers fail.
     
M: Yes: knowledge that all actions, thoughts, decisions, were taken with the highest possible impeccability that is/was understood at the time.
     
Ed: Enjoyment ... the positive, feeling good about one's accomplishments, the negative, feeling good about other's misfortune.
     
M: This is more open to discussion. There is "NO" feeling about others misfortune whatsoever, because feelings directed in that manner are dependencies and relate to not having lost the human form component of ego. Anything negative - anything - is really a positive when the lesson of the negative is learned, from within or from another by example.
     
Ed: Perfection ... positive: trying to be conscious when engaged in any endeavor and using a goal of "always trying to do one's best", negative: when failing to achieve one's goals, being critical of one's self or others.
     
M: Well, it's a careful statement because many would take "critical" as self-deprecation, which is a true failure. "Error correction" is an attribute of impeccability, and perhaps a "safer" term to use. Relative to others, it can only be through example and can never become an emotional component.
     
Ed: Criticism ... positive: being realistic when evaluating one's short-comings, negative: being critical of one's self or others with no positive intentions.
     
M: Understood.
     
-----------
     
Bob: Hello Michael, Rick, Ed, et all About the assemblage point. It is understood from study and experience that the assemblage point did not have QUALITIES, good or bad, but the assemblage point was something with a function. The way you are talking about the assemblage point having qualities makes it sound like we ARE the assemblage point. The understanding gained from reading and experience is that the movement of the assemblage point does not necessarily give qualities as much as opening up a new avenue of perception.
     
M: This is a mis-understanding. The assemblage point is something like a convergence point where all attributes come together, it by itself has no particular attribute. I'll try an analogy to communicate this. Suppose there was a single "hub" in the continental USA where all roads came together, and from that "hub" these roads could take one in any direction that he/she desired. The roads each have a function of direction and taking any road leads to varied and new experiences, wherein each road has a purpose and function. If one were to "find" the position of this singular "hub" where all roads joined, then one could simultaneously access "all roads" in parallel. The assemblage point is such a hub: the roads are the analogy of the attributes. If one cannot assemble such a point with intensity and coherence, then one simply is scattered about his/her own luminous form, skipping from road to road (attribute to attribute) with less ability and coherence.
     
Ed: Michael, in TFFW, DJ talks about using new emanations to cause the assemblage point to shift. When the new emanations (attributes) are used then the assemblage point is greater than it was before. But he is still talking about shifting the assemblage point. I understand you to be saying something somewhat different in that the assemblage point itself has to be assembled by bringing togetrher all of the different roads (attributes) to form the hub and use it. Have I got this right?
     
M: The assemblage point shifts to the most efficient point of gathering the "attributes", something like a demographic shift for population density in a map. DJM and self are really saying the same thing. As the attributes are defined and located, they are "not" necessarily "brought to" the assemblage point. The assemblage point moves to the most efficient position relative to the attributes. Also, as those "on the way" evolve, their understanding, ability to utilize, and converge into efficiency the attributes can shift the assemblage point as a normal part of the process. The assemblage point can also be shifted "by will" when it becomes learned that it is in an inefficient position, but this ties together with what has been related above, and it can indeed enhance a person's abilities to accomplish this.
     
Bob: From experience it has been understood that the point of no pity, which I have had the clearest experience of, while in a way it had qualities, these qualities were actually the byproduct of the way it made me look at the world. They were secondary.
     
Ed: I thought the same thing.
     
M: Certainly. The point attempted to be made is that there are many realities of the view, and there are attributes within each of these realities.
     
M: Just more attributes.
     
Bob: To clarify what I mean, the movement to the place of no pity caused me to look at life and death, persons and myself, in a new light. This new way of perceiving caused me to have qualities, such as detachment, that I did not have in the normal position of the assemblage point.
     
M: The analogy is that as one develops attributes, and begins to gather them (otherwise said: assemble them) then the point-density of "where" these assemble in the luminous cocoon is by definition - shifted.
     
Bob: Most of the Qualities you mentioned, Ed, seemed to be qualities one has while immersed in the human form, and how these qualities change when one drops the human form. However, a person can have BOTH qualities when in the human form, but will tend to vacillate between the two extremes of each quality ... like from pride to self denigration.
     
Ed: I agree. However, if I'm understanding Michael correctly, the goal is to lose the human form by focusing on the positive attributes and eliminating the negative. Gee, there used to be a song that goes something like this: You have to eliminate the negative and latch on to the affirmative, and don't mess with Mr. in-between. Bob, you are probably too young to remember that song :)
     
M: Yes. There is a secondary and tertiary level to consider. When the negatives are gone, usually as a system of strata - one at a time - they usually leave residue in the positives, so the task becomes a little more complex to learn how the residuals of the negatives have diminished to positives which then are free (unincumbered) to be enhanced.
     
M: Hope this helps. It's rather simple, actually.
     
---------- Bob: Hello Michael ... et all
     
Bob: My small fry petty tyrant, here at work, the woman I spoke to you about who criticizes everybody and every thing, when she would talk to me, I simply said , yes, yes ... etc. to everything she said, stopped judging her and what she should and should not do, and just did not listen to a lot of the things she said that were so hateful.
     
M: Understood, based on this and prior conversation. We can "never" (an absolute statement) participate in the negatives of petty tyrants.
     
Bob: I did this all last week, and on Wednesday evening she told me that there was something wrong with me because I did not complain any more ... I laughed and told her she might think about the absurdity of what she had just said. The next day she apologized, but she said she guessed she would have to find someone else to complain with, and that misery loved company. And though she talks to me some, she doesn't talk to me much, and she stopped complaining to me. (smile) Imagine that. The way to get rid of her was simply to be detached and impeccable.
     
M: Yahooooo! Confirmation of discovery! ------------- NOTE: At the risk of breaking with my set ways, I'm going to include Michael's original E-mail on to Bob's following question, and then include it again with Bill's questions/Michael's replys.
     
Bob: How do you open a doorway to the 2nd and 3rd attention?
     
M: The "noisy" mind must be dead quiet and warmed in high self-esteem, without fear or dependencies so that the fields/energy of self can, without reluctance or hesitancy, allow itself to (by intent) be projected beyond the body. In stages, first the luminous form is seen. It tends to be constructed from a series of tendrils, that look electric, extending initially from the body. The color and striations of these tendrils indicate the intensity, and the trick is to learn how to do this without draining any energy in any form of exertion. The luminous cocoon develops in intensity and form, and extends in dimension. Then, the assemblage point becomes dramatically visible. The level of the "ability" at this point becomes understood both through the coherence of the assemblage point, it's color, and the color of the luminous cocoon. When first seen, it is an awesome site, then one eventually becomes accustomed to it's being.
     
M: When that distraction is removed and becomes understood, in peace and the love that the coherence of unconditionality causes, on intent and will, without exertion, a focus toward the universe will cause a torus to open. It has a shape and a form, but this will not be described now to protect your objectivity. The torus is a gateway into the third attention. Those who have clinically died and lived in the light have not experienced having the light extend and open into the third attention through the torus. The torus form is bi-directional. If one simply wills to open the torus, allies can travel to the candidate and lead one through the torus, through a tunnel formation, into the third attention, or one can will oneself. At that point of travel, the impact could be staggering if the human form is not lost, and under that condition the torus would collapse and one would become back with frustration instantly as a human form in the 1st attention. If the human form is sufficiently lost, then the candidate travels through the torus, through the gateway torus, into the tunnel, and existence, with or without clinical death of the body, for the sentient consciousness of the individual is wholly in the third attention.
     
M: What is seen and experienced then, is again awesome.
     
M: This is more than has been described to you before. It is both as a process and as an experience as or more real than any individual can ever describe until it is experienced. It is the ultimate evolution of all sentience: to return to the universe in the form of energy from with all life and matter was derived.
     
M: Please take this description carefully: it is, real; and, now you know more.
     
M: Love
     
M: Michael
     
--------------
     
NOTE: As promised, here is the question answer version.
     
Bob: How do you open a doorway to the 2nd and 3rd attention?
     
M: The "noisy" mind must be dead quiet and warmed in high self-esteem, without fear or dependencies so that the fields/energy of self can, without reluctance or hesitancy, allow itself to (by intent) be projected beyond the body. In stages, first the luminous form is seen. It tends to be constructed from a series of tendrils, that look electric, extending initially from the body.
     
Ed: Are we talking about visually "seeing" one's own body or are you talking about creating a visual picture in one's mind?
     
M: No. Seeing. Being expanded and simultaneously enveloped. It's real as seeing sunlight, but more interesting.
     
M: The color and striations of these tendrils indicate the intensity, and the trick is to learn how to do this without draining any energy in any form of exertion. The luminous cocoon develops in intensity and form, and extends in dimension.
     
Ed: Would you please define dimension?
     
M: Size, mechanically said. The higher and the freer the individual, the farther out the extension of the cocoon is. An apprentice who has been engaged in , a mid-40's woman, has a cocoon on release of about a 3 meter radius from her center of being, and it has been expanding as she becomes freer.
     
M: Then, the assemblage point becomes dramatically visible.
     
Ed: Are you saying that one can "see" one's own or others assemblage point when this happens. Is this the same thing as connecting with another person on a deep mental, emotional, or intellectual level when one can "see" another's attributes because they seem to just flash like a neon sign?
     
M: Yes. It becomes quite literally seen. There is no imagination about it. The woman noted above, her daughter, the instant (and I mean "instant") she learned to see immediately "saw" her mother as the 3-meter shape that she had become. Immediately. She, of course was stunned by her first encounter with "what" her mother actually was. Then she saw across the room, her father. Smaller shape, different color.
     
M: The level of the "ability" at this point becomes understood both through the coherence of the assemblage point, it's color, and the color of the luminous cocoon. When first seen, it is an awesome site, then one eventually becomes accustomed to it's being.
     
Ed: If the "neon sign" anology stated above fits, then I understand.
     
M: It fits, but you'd have to have a rather large and powerful lumens from the sign.
     
M: When that distraction is removed and becomes understood, in peace and the love that the coherence of unconditionality causes, on intent and will, without exertion, a focus toward the universe will cause a torus to open. It has a shape and a form, but this will not be described now to protect your objectivity. The torus is a gateway into the third attention. Those who have clinically died and lived in the light have not experienced having the light extend and open into the third attention through the torus. The torus form is bi-directional. If one simply wills to open the torus, allies can travel to the candidate and lead one through the torus, through a tunnel formation, into the third attention, or one can will oneself. At that point of travel, the impact could be staggering if the human form is not lost, and under that condition the torus would collapse and one would become back with frustration instantly as a human form in the 1st attention. If the human form is sufficiently lost, then the candidate travels through the torus, through the gateway torus, into the tunnel, and existence, with or without clinical death of the body, for the sentient consciousness of the individual is wholly in the third attention.
     
Ed: I'll have to give the above some thought.
     
M: It's difficult to consider from the description, of course. It has to be experienced, and that simply requires development.
     
M: What is seen and experienced then, is again awesome.
     
M: This is more than has been described to you before. It is both as a process and as an experience as or more real than any individual can ever describe until it is experienced. It is the ultimate evolution of all sentience: to return to the universe in the form of energy from with all life and matter was derived.
     
M: Please take this description carefully: it is, real; and, now you know more.
     
Ed: Michael, thanks for sharing the above with me also.
     
M: By having the multi-copy distribution, it accomplishes several purposes with the same amount of energy: it's efficient. You're welcome.
     
-----------
     
M: As you can probably discern from the exchanges that have been going on, the CC/DJM reports/descriptions can be considerably enhanced. In a way, you have been responsible for dragging me out of the closet by opening up the opportunities to dialogue with others. You might find it informative to note that those like myself tend to stay "in the shadows". Even in "normal life" of technology, this is true and the proteges and apprentices carry the message forward.
     
R: Yes, I understand. I would have asked you to comment on the whole compilation of Castaneda's stuff, as you did on the small section sent last week, one paragraph at a time, but I've not asked. I even thought of starting at the beginning and sending one page at a time and asking, "what do you think about this" until it was all done, but I knew you'd catch on to that real fast. Actually, it would be more effective for me to pick out what might be.... Actually, I'd be very pleased if you would read the whole thing (Castaneda compilation) and pick out, yourself, the parts that comments would improve or correct. What do you think? Or just forget that and make this new addition the best it can be? I think the later, if I have to pick, ...and I'd like to have both.
     
M: When we first engaged in a dialogue, the CC compilation was perused in variously selected parts. The 'problems' that were noted were not with anything that you had done, because you had performed a significant service to those interested by condensing the whole into the pieces of the dialogue that really meant something, which primarily involved minimizing the CC babble.
     
M: The remaining problems exist with the DJM babble, which includes some of the misleading terms and processes that he used in instruction to CC. Certainly, some of these were because CC was a difficult student who just didn't absorb concepts easily (DJM did call him "stupid" on multiple occasions, which at best is a poor practice for a mentor to take) but the net result is that some statements are just flatly incorrect.
     
M: It would take a rather large effort to wade through all of the pieces and place them into a form of "corrected context" that could then correct the errors. An alternate approach might be to underline and "fix" the errors, but then the result would be a dichotomy with the original source books. If those who then read the "fixed" condensed version on your site were also familiar with the original source books, then you'd be burdened with a great deal of explanation.
     
M: Part of the problem of loosing the human form, at least relative to society, is that there is no need to write a book and "flaunt" knowledge. Most of those, by observation, that do "flaunt" knowledge and seek publicity do so with the intent of making money or compensating for the self-esteem deprivations. The result of this is that they write books, of course, and my "open" exposure is then limited through dedications and references in "their" books.
     
--------------
     
R: I know something as a result of my dreaming. I know that I can maintain my internal dialogue off in dreaming by willing it, at will. And so I know that I already know how to stay in the second attention, how to intend to stay there. All that's missing is getting there in the first place. I mention this as on a number of occasions you have talked about being blasted (my words) back to the first attention by human form attachments, and each time I've know exactly what you were talking about as that process is one I've gone through in dreaming since 1975. I couldn't stay in dreaming more than about 20 seconds when I started but now have much confidence in being able to stay put. I actually have no doubt that were I to switch into the second attention I would automatically stay and enjoy the ride. It's almost like I've not had the experience yet because I'm doing it all in dreaming anyway.
     
M: Yes you most certainly would enjoy the ride. All of the intonation of all the above is dramatically different than the form that you used in our earlier exchanges. Congratulations on your progress.
     
R: As for the "hugeness;" that is the closest I've ever come, the long ago described to you feeling of a nearly physical hugeness in me, around me ... now thinking about it, I've not been able to intend that to stay when it's happened, ... so much for my good ideas.
     
M: At some point, it will occur more and more. Patience here is a component indication of loosing the human form, and you're making progress.
     
--------------- Ed: Hi Michael and Gang, The last few posts have set my mind a buzz.
     
M: A positive thing ...
     
Ed: When I was in Chicago, in 1979, I recall actually feeling my tendrils, they seemed to radiate about three feet in front of and around my body.
     
M: Yes, depending on the intrinsic ability of the individual at the time. The tendrils link into the luminous form.
     
Ed: Another experience that comes to mind is this. Again, in Chicago. One evening as I was leaving a McDonalds, I noticed a very large (he must have weighed over 350 pounds) man coming in the door that I was going to make my exit from. He had on shabby old clothes and had a twinkle in his eyes, I noticed that he was wearing gloves with the fingers cut out so that they were visible. My first thought was that this was a homeless individual. I couldn't help staring at him. And then something incredible happened. His body shape kept increasing in size to the point where my field of vision was blocked by the enormity of his size. He continued to expand and then finally disappeared. I thought I had hallinciated.
     
M: Those who observe can take many forms.
     
Ed: Michael, who specifically are "those' who observe and what forms can they take? Can they take the form of a household pet, for instance?
     
M: Not usually, it is inefficient. "They" are allies, and members of a consortium.
     
M: Bob has experienced seeing shape shift in a hotel room in Dallas.
     
Ed: However sometimes I think about this incident and wonder. As usual, would be glad to hear everyone's thoughts.
     
M: Those who are predisposed to evolve through "the way" are often exposed to those who, in fact, are stalking the candidate.
     
Ed: Are you saying the man who grew in size and finally disappeared may have been stalking me?
     
M: Yes. It was a test.
     
M: This process has two impacts: first, it evaluates "through tests" the candidate to learn of the candidate's reactions; and, secondly, it "marks" the candidate through the experience. Taisha Abelar was "marked" by her mentor and the process required years for her to eventually recognize.
     
M: There is more, however it's not definitive that it's yet appropriate to inform of more.
     
Bob: Ed, it sounds as if an inorganic being was getting your attention. By the way, I'm 49 and I know that song well. hallucinations are, from understanding, real. After all, a rise in temperature can move the assemblage point and assemble worlds that are very near to ours, but are very chaotic, and so you can experience strange things when sick. I often hear voices and people talking to me when I am ill. Its not all that pleasant. Luckily I haven't been sick in over a year. Any kind of trauma can move the assemblage point and cause a person to see things he doesn't expect ... what is commonly called hallucinations most likely are bands that have been activated by the assemblage point that we don't normally use, but are still very close to our realm of normal or average man perceptions. Love Bob
     
M: Nothing for me to add here.
     
----------
     
M: Just a note that insofar as my processes are involved, everything is deeply personal. It is, in the learning form, usually a comfort to those in transition to find "like" individuals. After evolution beyond the human form, when the lessons are learned an ultimate "freedom" is literally in-hand, the primary attribute impelling/compelling is unconditional love.
     
L: I read all the e-mail that was coming to me from Michael and the others.
     
L: I am glad I am given the opportunity of sharing these exchanges. I will try to connect to those letters later.
     
M: For your reference, the concept of the multi-copies in e/mail is new here, and it is only for efficiency. Most of the exchanges that really assist in "launching" a person, or perhaps better said, facilitating the individual, occur on a private e/mail basis. For your reference, my responses to you will be to the e/mail paths that your address setup. If you send a private e/mail, it will remain private.
     
L: I see this multi-copies concept as similar as the branches of a tree. It is OK with me if others see what I write, and I am learning a lot from what I see in the other's correspondence, between them and with you. If something does not feel good or right to me I will let you know. I feel it is very important to me that Rick gets a copy of what I write to you, and I am glad he is getting a copy of what you write back to me. It is a personal process, but at the same time it is not, the same as branches are individual branches but an organic part of the same tree. I am flowing in this. It is surely evolving quickly. I am recognizing some effects in me already. Still some of it it is hard to recall or put in words. You are helping me see some things much more clear.
     
M: This is the purpose of facilitation. There is more, of course, however this is the next phase for you. Intrinsically you were very close to a threshold of transformation when you came to this dialogue, thanks to Rick and his site. The purpose of our interaction, engaging each other, is to facilitate and complete this phase.
     
L: Just wanted to share something that "happenned" to me yesterday afternoon. It was between "funny" and "unusual". I would like to know if it may be related with what we are dealing with here.
     
M: Good.
     
L: I came from work with a friend. She gave me a ride in her car. I left work much earlier than usual. When we arrived to the place where I had to get off the car, she stopped it, and I, instead of just getting off, found myself in a weird situation (hard to remember what really happened) where probably my feet got stuck in something. The result was that the way I found myself out of the car was as if something had lifted me in the air, and threw me directly to the sidewalk, leaving me on the ground, half sitting, half lying on my back. It did not hurt at all, it felt like a very soft long landing from a high place but it was really funny. It was kind of impossible or illogical. I do not see how it happened. I was there on the ground, the car's door open, looking directly to my friend's face, and we were both laughing soundly in one second. Since that moment until late at night, I felt I was experiencing some altered state of consciousness.
     
M: You were, and are. There were experiences within the experience that you have not yet identified.
     
L: This gives me a very strong insight. I understand what you are saying. This makes clear to me a confusion I am carrying with me for years.
     
M: If ever there is confusion, take actions to resolve it and never carry it because it is energy depletion.
     
M: In a mode of peace and meditation you will find experience within the event that occurred on the bridge between the 2nd and 3rd attentions.
     
L: I will try to do this
     
M: Good. Please, as you connect to it, note the sensations that will occur within and upon your body. These are signals to trigger the memory of what occurred.
     
M: Since you were also aware of your state of physical being at the time, the connection actually ran through all of the attentions, but since the "deepest" phase was on the bridge of the 2nd and 3rd attentions, it was preparatory.
     
L: Preparatory for what?
     
M: A tendril of energy was placed to connect you to further advancement. Think of this like a sting that one might see on the trail, where the string leads to something unseen. The "string" connected to you has a path and a direction that when you grasp it, you can follow. This course will lead to more events, probably in step-function ways, to now test your impeccability. It is an important segment of your candidacy. The tests for your level of evolution will be profound. Tests are always commensurate to ability: the higher the ability the more profound the tests. From the tests we learn dramatically and dynamically more, even if we fail. Remember more than ever, impeccability as your watchword or mantra if needed. The goal of impeccability is freedom and non-dependency, not arrogance or protections.
     
L: Some minutes after it happened, I was walking, and I met by chance a friend I have not seen for six years. Six years ago, the last time we met before he left to LA to study film making, I gave him a present: a book, the "Shaman's Body" (related to Castaneda's work). I never heard from him since then until yesterday, some minutes after I landed on my back. And this was just the first of two more very strange encounters with people. I felt very open. And very "unattached" at the same time.
     
L: Could that "falling on my back" have affected the location of my assemblage point?
     
M: The events within the events, on the previously noted bridge, impacted your attributes and the location of your assemblage point.
     
L: Does intent take place in the first or second attention? Can I know at this moment what my intent is?
     
M: Intent, actually, runs through "all" of the attentions, varying only in intensity. Place yourself in the sun in a quiet and undisturbed place. Listen to the breeze, and feel the flows of nature. Find peace, and connect to love. Intent will be manifest.
     
L: I have the feeling that I am going through some unknown process within a conscious process, (which means in some other attention?), and that I am not fully aware of what it is. What happened in the car was something that has to do with that intent.
     
L: Was that incident more than "coincidence"?
     
M: Absolutely no question. "We" do not experience coincidences.
     
L: I understand.
     
M: (smile)
     
L: Has something really "lifted me" out of the car? My friend that saw what happened cannot understand herself what she saw.
     
M: Yes. One of the allies approached you. After some point of stasis for you, there are many thresholds of transition in front of you: crossings.
     
L: Is it going to be all the time the same ally?
     
M: No. Each ally has a purpose. You can connect to the consortium by extending you energy into the universe.
     
L: Can I get in touch with it? Know it somehow?
     
M: You have already begun. As long as you do not block or regress into your prior dependencies on other humans for comfort and solace, you will expand and connect more.
     
L: Is it "new" in my life, I mean, did it contact me lately or it has been around me for a long time already, just that I never felt its presence?
     
M: It is not new. You have been a candidate for a long time. You were blocked by physicalities and your dependencies on what those brought to you, along with an intense desire to "do what you wanted to, with whomever, believing that this represented freedom". It represented independence of action, sometimes imprudently, but it substituted one form of dependency for another, so in this situation "independence" was confused with "freedom".
     
M: Perhaps it is time to open something, and please contemplate this very deeply.
     
L: Thank you.
     
M: There is, quite obviously, an incredible amount of energy in the universe. This energy is omnipresent, and takes a forms only now being slightly understood by science. For brevity, some of the energy and the fields that bind the energy into coherence, is sentient.
     
L: By sentient you mean that this energy can have awareness and intent?
     
M: Yes. Sentient Consciousness. Imagine what you actually are, without a body. Look at your extremities, you hands, legs, or whatever. These are only appliances that you utilize, "not you".
     
M: When one travels, indeed exists, in the third attention, one is comprised only of these fields of energy. The result is that one is only sentient consciousness of fields, a being comprised of "pure energy" in a manner of speaking. The "way of knowledge" instructs the precepts about the need to loose the human forms of distractions and dependencies so that one can "continue" into infinity as a "pure being" comprised of fields/energy, and bound - held together - through coherence of intent of the being itself.
     
L: I am reading this paragraph again and again. Every new time I have a different perception. I remember some things, I see some visions. It is interesting how this happens. I think I can see the experience within the experience even while I read. Repetition seems to have some power over the movement of the AP too.
     
M:
     
M: There have been many names identified with, assigned to, beings of this nature that range from "spirits" to "souls" to "angels" to "sorcerers". These are all just terms in a vague attempt to describe phenomena otherwise unknown.
     
L: It is hard to grasp energy as a sentient coherent being. This is why I suppose we needed to find names.
     
M: Partly this is a naked concept problem. Identify yourself in the absence of your body, or your gender. Absent those, what remains?
     
L: Everything in fact has names in the first attention for this same purpose. When I look at things without giving them names, or interpreting them, they become unfamiliar. Including the most familiar objects and things.
     
M: Then, break the link to the names and learn what remains. Even your own name has many 1st attention links. What are you if you name were to be removed? What remains?
     
L: At the same time, if we take the "names" or labels from dreams and other normal or abnormal experiences, then, they become all the same. A whole big perception without boundaries.
     
M: Yes.
     
L: There is a lot of magic in this journey to infinity. We have all the clues, and probably all the keys. But is it necessary to let go of interpretation.
     
M: Yes. In time and understanding, even what is now thought of as "magic" will just be accepted as normal.
     
M: One of the more "fun" things while travelling in the third attention is to execute what CC/DJM said to do: "look at/for your hands". Since one is only energy in the third attention, then any body component literally has to be created from fields as a image based on intent, so what you see again literally, is what you construct.
     
M: In the third attention, the state of infinite being (or if you wish, the continuation into infinity) the energy/field form of "being" is the same throughout the universe, meaning, that the fields and energy forms are the same, no matter where or by what evolutionary process they were initially formed within the universe, and "thought" fields, energy, time and space are not the separate entities that society believes they are.
     
L: I understand from these words that infinity is a state, not a "place" where we finally arrive in a linear way.
     
M: Yes. Einstein, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, and even Leibnitz showed this.
     
L: Which means that in this moment, at the same time my fingers are typing with my first attention on them, believing that all I am doing is looking for my thoughts and then finding the letters on the keyboard to communicate them in words, there is some parallel interaction which I am probably experiencing, as some energy sentient being in the third attention (or infinity)?
     
M: Yes. Yes.
     
L: In this case, where does intent come from? If the ego is not the real guide or driver, then who or what is?
     
M: It is derived from the central core of who and what you are absent the labels. It could be said that "intent is" you, as evolved.
     
L: Are we all guided by that same intent or intent is something personal? Do our acts in the first attention have an effect on the parallel worlds or the opposite is the truth?
     
M: To the first: yes, it is personal. To the second: everything is connected to one extent or another.
     
M: In the third attention, one can enjoin others to in impact meld into a consortium of consciousness, gain knowledge, then detach as an individual.
     
L: I can see the concept of consortium. My question here is (...sorry I am asking so many questions this time, I try to answer without questions as much as I can...)
     
M: You're doing well.
     
L: whether someone who is not aware of the third attention can be part of any consortium without knowing about it, and realize it only later, when his/her personal evolution gives him/her a clue of what was going on even in his/her past experiences? I guess that because time is not what we think it is, then this can be possible...
     
M: I think you answered your own question.
     
M: We "can" couple, even with each other with 1st attention physicality, our consciousness into one luminous form with another (apprentices can attest to this) with the impact that; for example, two beings can co-exist as one luminous form for whatever period both consent to do. It is far more intimate that any physical action that even a male and female can undertake.
     
L: I can figure out this in some intuitive way. I myself have never seen the luminous forms of other people. Is there any practical way to do so?
     
M: It helps to be able to see one's own luminous form first. For now it's efficient not to go too far in this description, not to let it drop, just to defer it for a while.
     
M: Given all that, there is a consortium, and it's membership includes myself. The purpose of facilitating others to evolve is not altruistic, since that is a false concept even in society. By assisting through facilitation other candidates to evolve, eventually, more sentient consciousness of energy and fields are brought to the universe: all benefit.
     
L: How did you first became aware of the consortium that includes you as a member, as such?
     
M: The first contact was in about 1957 or so, when my first clinical death was experienced. By that time, there had been sufficiently ability demonstrated (starting about age 8) so that my Spanish-Catholic Mother, who always identified "her" abilities in religious terms, needed to have me visit an "special" priest who lived in the Archbishop's residence (a mansion by itself) who was an exorcise recognized by the Church. What I found was a person who was "like me" and who hid his abilities under the awning of the Church. He, in essence, instructed me "Never tell anyone who or what you are for they will either condemn you as evil or worship you as a god". That took years of hiding to recover from.
     
M: In 1957 (just before age 16) there was a motorcycle accident and that started a new process. I had no preparation for the connections in the third attention that were initiated then.
     
M: Moving the story ahead for efficiency, my progress was one of erratic fits and starts through to about the age ~35-ish. Then, in about 1975/6 I connected to a mentor who was a member of a psychological group, and he was the third person, in a sequence of three, to connect to me. He was an empath, very able, and to make a long story shorter he taught me how to project myself beyond the body. There was again a period of fits and starts as identification was difficult, but I worked with him until about 1980, although there was continued activity with him through about 1983. I fell off the path again in denial to about 1988 when my body started to fail - again - and this time the time had finally come to "get on the way and stay there".
     
M: By about 1989 many of the denials and blocks were gone through intent, and the first travel into the third attention occurred circa 1991 probably due to the preparation and events that went before. In the third attention, it was amazing. Although the peace of projecting my consciousness beyond my body to travel was wonderful and taught about 1978 by my mentor of the time (it was essentially identical to the descriptions of those who had clinically died and "seen" the light, but this was by my volition and ability on my will) the time seemed to have come for me to be compelled toward my evolution. While on a trip, in the middle of the night, basically I was "catapulted" into the third attention to be instructed by members of what I've come to call "the consortium". They wanted to demonstrate to me where I had been failing, that "this" was real, but they didn't let me really interact: they allowed me to observe their conversations about me. In essence, the conversation went along the direction of, "well, he's here, he's figured it out to know how to continue and what evolution is about, now, what do we do with him?".
     
M: There were other travels to the third attention, and each travel was conjoined with different individuals, instructing different things.
     
M: Then, in 1994, again there was experienced clinical death. Gone. Poof. Flatline. The travel into the third attention was essentially identical as had been previously experienced without clinical death. On this occasion, there was a meeting with seven luminous forms. (It almost always starts with the sentients being in the luminous forms, but then they present themselves in a more human shape on their will.) On this occasion, there was no need any longer to modify their appearence, and we all stayed in the luminous form of pure being. On this occasion I was given the opportunity of halting my progress and continuing into the third attention - forever - BUT it was demonstrated by example just WHAT it was intended that my evolution yield, and WHY I hadn't achieved that by that point. Basically, I was admonished and scolded, and it was a humbling experience. The basis of my lack of evolution was the remaining threads of human form: arrogance that thought I was more evolved than I actually was. (On a scale of 1 to 5, where 5 is the ultimate, I had thought I was a 4 but learned that only a 3 had been achieved.) So, given the choice of failing "my path" or returning back to the training ground of the 1st attention, connected almost always simultaneously to three attentions forever, ON MY WILL, and on my intent - I returned at light speed back into my body to the sounds of an ER staff shouting "He's back. We've got him!".
     
M: So the process continued, and my existence changed yet again, forever. There were other instructionally based travels to the third attention, but I became weary and isolated. On Mother's Day, 1998, there was another flatline, and again there was the decision: do you NOW continue into the third attention or finish the task. This was a clear test yet again, and when I responded it was as if the whole universe echoed and resonated with my decision to continue the process. The subsequent travels to the third attention were now with a much larger group: the majority or perhaps the whole, of the consortium. Finally, a very detailed expose' occurred where it was revealed very precisely what was intended and what the responsibilities at that level of evolution were to be. It was overwhelming.
     
M: For almost two years, it was decided to "hold back". This was yet again a symptom of the human form reluctance to let go. Also, it was recognized that once the intentional "blocks" were released, the final stage would be engaged, that my existence would again change forever, and from that point not much could quite be the same again.
     
M: The block was removed about the time the decision was made to contact Rick, mid-last year. The result on a personal basis, in terms of experiences and evolution, were exactly as anticipated and never again can isolation or holding back ever occur again.
     
M: Now you know more, and some of this is new to Rick. You, Linda, are a component of this process.
     
M: (Whew).
     
L: Did it have in the beginning some personal link to Carlos Castaneda himself or his original group?
     
M: No, not directly. CC himself had almost no "power". DJM had called him something like a "scribe" or a "reporter" and that is what he was. My own ancestry has it's own processes. When I met CC and his group, it was clear that their processes and their heritage was relatively new. For a while it was tempting to inform them that there were parallels that had more continuity than they might understand, but it was decided that it would accomplish nothing so it wasn't engaged. CC in the later years derived his "ability" through a woman named who does have the "attributes".
     
L: I know that you will tell me only what I am "ready" to be told, so I feel comfortable enough asking this question.
     
M: Done.
     
M: My name is Michael: I can only be myself. The time had come, in rather quick form, to open more to you. The processes of your evolution are on the threshold of escalating, in fact, this has already started.
     
L: I am quite amazed by this whole process. I was always very much confused between my real being and some alien and confusing mind installed in me that took charge and kept me busy trying to fix myself. The un-doing that you spoke about in a previous note must be done. Seriously, the only thing I am doing to un-do myself is having the intent and being aware of staying impeccable as much as I can. Should I work harder?
     
M: Work with a form of quiet and peaceful intent. Learn to love yourself unconditionally. At the point where you are in your evolution, it is "highly" suggested that "your work" with yourself be based in an impeccable way that does "not" exert yourself. If it feels like a struggle, it's probably wasting energy, and that is a violation of impeccability.
     
M: Those who have lost the human form (Rick has an interesting file when he concluded something between he and self some time ago) have the ability to unconditionally love.
     
L: If this is possible I would very much like to read this file.
     
M: Ask Rick to copy you....
     
M: This is a state of being that implies no dependencies, and no need even of reciprocity.
     
L: Reciprocity is also a "name", an invention of the ego to keep us busy, isn't it?
     
M: Reciprocity is a process, a function.
     
L: Thank you Michael for your presence
     
M: In a way, with you, it's tempting to say that there is "no choice", so for now the traditional "you're welcome" is appropriate. Please think about the former statement though and see if you can discern what that means.
     
L: Peace for all
     
L: Linda
     
M: Peace,
     
M: Michael
     
----------
     
More to come ... let me know what you think about it. - Rick




Introduction

The Teachings of don Juan

A Separate Reality

Journey to Ixtlan

Tales Of Power

The Second Ring of Power

The Eagle's Gift

The Fire From Within

The Power of Silence

The Art of Dreaming

The Active Side of Infinity

Appendix A thru E

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part l

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part ll

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part lll

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part lV

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part V

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part Vl

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part Vll

Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part VllI


Please send e-mail to me by clicking on my name.Rick Mace
My pottery page is here. Rick Mace Pottery